Added: Nov 23, 2008
From: npage85
Duration: 10:36
This is my solution...I would love to debate people like KingHeathen... and others who hold that there exists this paradox.I would also like to debate anyone who opposes my theology, even if they are Christians(Calvinists, for example).I hope you enjoy the video, and that it causes you to think a little deeper while contemplating this "paradox."
Channel: Education
Tags: foreknowledge free god's man's paradox predestination will
Rating: 4.05 (21 ratings) Views: 672' favoriteCount='4 Comments: 25
Carex09 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - Do we really have free will if 99% of the possibilities have already been chosen by God to go extinct? It feels like we chose and have free will, but perhaps it is the difference between being the fire, and looking at the fire. The fire does what it wan'ts to do, and we try to have control over it. But how much control do we really have?
Carex09 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - by the way I am NOT a guy
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "Why does your solution look a little too much like a biology evolutionary chart in which a number of different species- or branches of the evolutionary chain- go extinct (the possibilities of choice on your chart)?"-- I would turn the question around by asking "why does that even enter your mind as a correlation?" Are you trying to imply that my idea is an Evolutionary one?
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "Do we really have free will if 99% of the possibilities have already been chosen by God to go extinct?"-- A lot of the choices that have gone extinct you most likely didn't even think of. Think about this: "can you choose to phase through a brick wall?"Of course not... God, when He created our universe, created matter to behave the way it does so as to eliminate that choice.
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - There are actually an infinite number of choices that you can't make simply because God made the universe the way it is.Ever think about that?
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - " by the way I am NOT a guy"-- Was this directed to me? I don't believe that I've ever called you a guy, nor did I ever have the notion that you were.I've never seen you before... but I did just visit your channel, and you look like a woman to me.If I *did* say "guy" before this(which I don't believe I have), then I was simply using it in the sense of "person," "dude," a completely androgynous usage.
Atheist321 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - I believe the people that pick calvinism is because of the age of accountability. If a baby goes to heaven you may want to kill your baby instead of it possibly going to hell if it gets old enough.
JDtheMusicMan Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - There is no paradox. People who think there is have too small of an opinion of God! Does not the creator of the universe and all that is in it, accomplish His will within every person who ever lived since Day 1. Do you not think that the almighty creator cannot design every aspect, circumstance, and situation within our lives to accomplish His will? Its not foreknowldge of our actions that causes God to choose the elect. God chooses, and the elect respond, in time, within their "freewill".
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "Its not foreknowldge of our actions that causes God to choose the elect. God chooses, and the elect respond, in time, within their "freewill"."-- While I appreciate your *opinion*, like I already responded to zkeuker88(down below in these comments), nothing in the Bible says that we lack non-deterministic free-will.Non-deterministic free-will and the Bible are consistent.Trying to counter my reasoning with your *opinion* that we lack non-deterministic free-will doesn't work.
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "If a baby goes to heaven you may want to kill your baby instead of it possibly going to hell if it gets old enough."-- What... and commit a sin?This justification that you gave doesn't make much sense.
Atheist321 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - Would if the person says I will go to hell and commit the sin if my baby can go to heaven?
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "Would if the person says I will go to hell and commit the sin if my baby can go to heaven?"-- Very strange, and twisted.I don't think people do the at large, or in great number... if at all.
deloit Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - There is no evidence that "God" exists.
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "There is no evidence that "God" exists."-- That is news to me... especially given the abundance of evidence that He *does* exist.People who state things like you did above are most likely already mislead by the New Atheistic movement.Look up the "Kalam" argument, and my "proof of dualism and compelling evidence for God" argument.My argument can be found here (in three parts):watch?v=f_y0CZa86jwTaking that video a step further:watch?v=zOCOMAMo2QUKalam argument:watch?v=Nz_YKSBmWPY
velocityeleven Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - its fair enough to say that he has only "logical omnipotence" which would then get rid off the paradox as it stands, but the question then would be why would he be able to not create it rather than not be able to create it? if you know what I mean... You said that it's because a rock wouldn't be able to exist but there is also the problem of why not be able to lift rather not be able to create...hope you understand what I mean
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "why would he be able to not create it rather than not be able to create it?""Able to not create it?"-- Well, if it is logically impossible for such a thing to exist, then He is not able to create it. In logic, the "not" can be moved to right before the "create," and everything has the same logical meaning.
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "there is also the problem of why not be able to lift rather not be able to create..."-- It is logically impossible for such a rock to exist in the first place. You are arguing for a logically impossible object to exist. Seems like a self-defeating argument to me.
skalapunk Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure...I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. "What do you make of this passage? God here declares that He not only knows the future, but even declares it (decides what it will be) based on His own good pleasure and purpose.
npage85 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - "God here declares that He not only knows the future, but even declares it (decides what it will be) based on His own good pleasure and purpose."-- It does not say that He knows the future... it only says that He has an end-game goal in mind, and will make His end come to pass.That's like saying that a chessmaster who has the goal in mind that he will win the game knows all the moves in-between.*That's* what I make of that passage... and it doesn't twist the scripture at all.
skalapunk Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - You make it sound like God has some sort of vague "ultimate end goal" but is not really certain of the details or how it comes about.How can an omnipotent being "declare" what the end will be without also declaring every detail in between?
skalapunk Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - Personal question, do you openly claim to be a Christian?
bobrose00 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - God is outside of time...he's not bound by time. So he sees everything as it is, will be, was, all at the same time.
jhughes134 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - Bobrose00 you hit on the true answer. God is outside of time, therefore knows what choices are to be made by the free will of man but does not influence them. He is "outside" of time itself.
bobrose00 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - The thing is, if God "determines" or "causes" everything, then that brings up many problems. For example, it would mean that God causes us to sin. This is completely contradictory to what the Bible has to say. God "hates" sin. God does not tempt us more than what we can bear.So I'm forced to believe that God fulfills his will by allowing us to make choices. What we do on our own is allowed by God, but not caused by God. Yet we're still under his power in the sense that we're created beings.
Carex09 Says:
Nov 23, 2008 - I wasn't saying that you were necessarily wrong, I'm just saying there is more to the universe and existence than little fish in a bowl can see. You are right that God and free will is a paradox. Why does your solution look a little too much like a biology evolutionary chart in which a number of different species- or branches of the evolutionary chain- go extinct (the possibilities of choice on your chart)?